From: Skardal, Harald (Harald.Skardal@netapp.com)
Date: 05/31/02-02:06:29 PM Z
Message-ID: <B4353D108FA4D4118C3A00D0B782A45802FFC669@ussvlexc07.corp.netapp.com>
From: "Skardal, Harald" <Harald.Skardal@netapp.com>
Subject: RE: tar for NFS V4
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:06:29 -0700
Resent to this mailing list since it bounced earlier according
to Spencer.
Harald
-----Original Message-----
From: Skardal, Harald
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 8:38 AM
To: 'Gordon Waidhofer'; Harris, Guy
Cc: Eric Kadison; nfsv4-wg@sunroof.eng.sun.com; ndmp-tech@netapp.com
Subject: RE: tar for NFS V4
All,
Just as the the NFSv4 community is going outside its
traditional scope and getting interested in file system
migration, I think the NDMP cmmunity have to take a step outside
our traditional turf and consider seriously the task
of backing up date with richer metadata, such as NFSv4,
NTFS etc. I can not say what the right approach is
(tar+ vs new utility), but in order to push NDMP along
we need to make sure that the right underlying tools exists
such that use of NDMP can be expanded.
There are numerous new technologies available now that might
help, as compared to when tar was conceived. I would think
that XML could be used, either to construct one DTD for
the superset of all possible file system attributes, or
a format where the DTD was included such that all metadata
encoded in the "tar+" file bu the originating file system
could be decoded.
Translation into a different file system is a different issue,
in some cases attributes may not be translatable. To me, the
most important thing here is to be able to store the meaning
of the attributes in the source file system with the actual
encoded attributes and the data.
I could see this being a "joint venture" between NDMP and NFS,
and possibly others. (WebDAV?). It seems as if there are
two deliverables, a data format specification, and an open
source implementation for Linux.
First question: What is the general interest level in the NFSv4
group and in the NDMP collaborative in solving this problem
together?
Cheers,
Harald
-----Original Message-----
From: Gordon Waidhofer [mailto:gww@traakan.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:33 PM
To: Guy Harris
Cc: Eric Kadison; nfsv4-wg@sunroof.eng.sun.com;
ndmp-tech@netapp.com
Subject: Re: tar for NFS V4
The question of enhancing the tar format for new attributes
appeared on the NDMP (Network Data Movement Protocol,
ndmp-tech@ndmp.org)
mail list some time ago. The scope of the question is
broader than
NFSv4. For example, NTFS and MacOS file models have
many attributes
that tar wouldn't know from a hole in the ground :)
Perhaps something akin the Rock Ridge (CD-ROM file system)
tagged attributes would do the trick. Perhaps leave tar
alone and do something new. Perhaps.....
Clearly the backup format question is outside the scope of
NFSv4 work.
So too beyond the strict scope of NDMP. Yet participants in
both these efforts will surely have interest in backup formats,
file attributes, interoperability/exchangability, and so on.
There is a worthwhile overlap. Hopefully the day will come
when we can all take up this issue.
But not today......
Regards,
-gww
Guy Harris wrote:
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2002 at 03:21:10PM -0700, Eric Kadison wrote:
> > Has anyone looked into updating the tar program to
support new NFS V4
> > features (e.g. the new attributes)?
>
> "tar" wouldn't know NFS from a hole in the ground.
>
> If there are APIs in the OSes on which "tar" runs that allow
> applications such as "tar" access to those features, the
"tar" that
> comes with those OSes might be updated to use those APIs.
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